Adam and Ian\'s bundle of blah

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Stephanie Power Stephanie Power 1 week, 4 days ago.

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  • #5441
    Sir Withlove
    Sir Withlove
    Participant

    Predictably, Adam will become besotted with whatever baby or child he and Ian adopt. I saw “predictably,” except that neither Adam nor Ian seems to consider this possibility. The only person talking sense in this whole plotline is Lillian, with “Men have been having babies to please their partners since year dot.” The crucial point NOT being that men always hate their kids, but that they tend to love their kids DESPITE their initial ambivalence (which is probably true of just as many women). Any parent who isn’t a bit terrified of having a child is living in a fantasy larger than Emmer’s Dream House.

    #5443
    Miss Mid-City
    Miss Mid-City
    Participant

    Amazing, isn’t it, how quickly the issue of having a child at all has been resolved between them?!

    I thought Ian had warned Adam never to raise the subject again last week, now here they are planning an adoption. It makes me wonder how thorough the screening process will be?!

    Both Ian and Adam are mardy and sulky. In soap opera land as in life, having a baby doesn’t always “glue” couples together.

    #5445
    Scott Matthewman
    Scott Matthewman
    Participant

    I’d disagree that it’s been resolved at all. The difference in attitudes between Adam and Ian and Jennifer’s dinner party showed that they’re not both on completely the same page.

    Of my friends circle, two LGBT couples have gone through the adoption process, and they had very different experiences from one another in terms of how long it took. It does seem to vary quite a lot based on which local authority is responsible; and even once approved, how long it takes to be matched with a child varies as well. Two of my friends were matched with their son, who was then approaching 1yr, very quickly indeed; they’ve since decided they want to adopt again, and have been on the waiting list for two years.

    #5466
    Kosmo
    Kosmo
    Participant

    Given that the story goes back 5 or more years to when Mads was going to have a baby the story feels like it has been found at the back of the cupboard and given a dusting down. Adam has strayed twice in that period. Are they really up to dealing with a teenager in 10/15 years time?

    #5470
    Janis Poe
    Janispope
    Participant

    I like this storyline, it’s got a lot of interesting angles to it, from some of the comments on social media I feel that as two gay men Adam and Ian are subject to more criticism and scepticism about their ability to parent than a non gay couple would be. Obviously they will need to prove there ability and willingness to deal with whatever an adopted child throws at them (no pun intended). As I understand it the adoption process is challenging and thorough with an additional process to match the family to the child. There are difficulties in Adam and Ian’s relationship due to Adams infidelity and hopefully the process will help them make the right decisions for their future and any future children. Like the coercive control storyline there will hopefully be a positive impact in raising awareness of fostering and adoption in the country as there is a shortage of carers at present.

    #5471
    Janis Poe
    Janispope
    Participant

    I should have listened to last nights episode before posting above! Looks like this is veering towards a surrogacy storyline and away from adoption, however still lots of points of interest in the story.

    #5481
    Nancy
    Nancy
    Participant

    What if Helen, as a practical experiment, were to leave Jack in their care while she takes Henry off on a two week holiday? They would then have an opportunity to experience firsthand what caring for a baby entails, and how they would cope with it. At the very least, it would make for an interesting 12 episodes, I think.

    #5483
    Kosmo
    Kosmo
    Participant

    Nancy – I like that. But why not leave Henry as well? Pat and Tony are not far away and looking after two, doing the school runs and so on will demonstrate the time imput required by two people who are probably reasonably well off but time poor.

    #5484
    Sir Withlove
    Sir Withlove
    Participant

    Now that they’re planning to have “their OWN baby” (a phrase offensive to adoptive parents everywhere), why not consider gestational surrogacy, using Ian’s sperm and donated eggs from one of Adam’s many female relatives? It could placate Adam’s ambivalence about the child being biologically closer to Ian than to him, and it could play into any number of other storylines: up-for-anything Alice could donate while still refusing to have a baby with Chris, leading to their (inevitable?) split; Kate could agree, deciding that another baby is the one thing that would really bring her joy; Debbie could donate to compensate for her never having got married; Phoebe (as someone said on FB) could do it for the money she needs to keep up with her rich friends at Oxford; heck, Nolly is 16 now, maybe she could do it. And as an added bonus, having a Home Farm stakeholder as the mother will complicate the inheritance and partnership storylines for years to come!

    #5490
    Marie Inger
    fatffriend
    Participant

    Sir Withlove, you are so nearly right! I have just read in the Radio Times that Helen will volunteer as a surrogate. Interesting!
    And you are right about the offensiveness of ‘own’. Of my own children I have known only one from conception. Worse than ‘own baby’ is ‘real mother/father’ for the one they are genetically related to. Does that make me false? synthetic? fake? Though, of course, I supported my children when they wanted to discover more about their early lives.

    #5498

    That was well-said, Fatfriend. From a physician, gay male, and American point of view, I’ve had mixed reactions to this storyline: I’m certainly very happy that The Archers is exploring it (it seems to be the new Archers “social issue”, following up on spousal abuse), but I just feel like they’ve gotten things wrong so far and are rushing it (sorry, Lucy, I know you feel like it’s going in slow motion)-but at this point, Adam and Ian haven’t really gotten anywhere, which is maybe, the point. In America, there are many laws in place governing this process, and they vary from state to state. It seemed to start with the “Baby M” case that riveted us back in the 1986. Have a read:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_M

    I remember feeling so sorry for the Sterns and angry at Mary Beth Whitehead; at first the courts ruled in her favor and then an appeals court reversed the ruling. As the Wikipedia entry explains, at the time there were only “traditional” surrogates and not “gestational” surrogates. That’s why I’ve been shocked about Ian and Adam seemingly only talking about traditional surrogates. Helen was the first to mention an egg donor yesterday. And I’m glad she realized it was best to back out of it – it had the potential to be very messy. And most importantly, because Helen has had a history of difficult pregnancies, she would definitely not be considered a good choice to be a gestational surrogate: you would not put your health or the baby’s health in jeopardy in that situation! And please, DTD hosts, no more mention of a 40 year old Kate as a possible gestational surrogate: again, not a very sensible choice for the surrogate or the baby.

    As I said, surrogacy is a very long, difficult, and very expensive process. It can cost a couple upwards of 150 thousand dollars and several years to complete the process. Please read the following article “How Two Men Make a Baby” which explores the journey for several male couples. I am acquainted with the author’s husband Zach, mentioned in the article. It will give you a great sense of what it’s is really like.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a45722/gay-parents-surrogacy/

    And please listen to this fascinating and complex Radiolab entry entitled “Birthstory” which gives you a sense of where surrogacy is internationally.

    http://www.radiolab.org/story/birthstory/

    As I’ve said, I always do root for Adam and Ian, although Adam can really get on my nerves-lighten up, fella! I don’t know whether they will wind up going through the route of surrogacy (but please, do it properly!!) or through adoption, but I think they will have a child. And I think it will be good for them (as was said by our hosts, they seem to do nothing with their free time).

    I look forward to further discussion!

    W.-

    #5501
    Aunty Jean
    Aunty Jean
    Participant

    Hey Witherspoon

    You might be interested in this.

    Common questions answered

    Cost isn’t much of an issue here. Between £7k and £15k is doable fir A&I

    Baby will be born and cared for by the NHS.

    Legal issues regarding birth certificate and who is ‘legally ‘ the parents can be resolved.

    They need a sensible surrogate. Thank god not Helen! And definitely NOT Kate.

    Bring in a new character, if it goes any further. The very thought and discussion of it may break A&I’s relationship. Adam is obviously still struggling with it.

    We will see.

    #5502
    Janis Poe
    Janispope
    Participant

    I read the articles, thanks for the homework Witherspoon! Very complicated and difficult, I wonder what the situation in the UK will be, I am guessing it will be even more difficult with less potential surrogates, less support and potentially needing to involve a surrogate from abroad.

    The Archers was willing to put the time into the Coercive control storyline until the abrupt stabbing. So perhaps the Editor will have the confidence to take the time to show how difficult it is likely to be for Adam and Ian. However I don’t know how patient listeners will be, to wait for a due date. My general sense is that very little action takes place outside of Ambridge, which is why we are all on the hunt for a suitable woman of child bearing age in the village.

    When it was possible that Helen would be a surrogate I did wonder as a side issue how Kirsty would deal with it as the first pregnancy in the village following her miscarriage.

    #5509
    Purple Pumpkin
    Purple Pumpkin
    Participant

    For me, the problems with this storyline keep multiplying.

    I am the birth mother of a child born by donor insemination. My female partner was present through all the 4 years it took to conceive, and is now at least as much our child’s “real” mother, in everybody’s eyes (except the law). She gets extremely cross when men say of course they can’t bond with their child the way the mother does because they don’t breastfeed. This seems exactly like Adam saying that of course Ian will be closer to a child that is biologically his. At this point, I’d say Ian will be closer to the child because he will do all the nappies, feeding, staying up all night, bathing and all the other stuff that makes you bond with a child.

    So, I really hope, as others have said, that this storyline takes something like. Realistic amount of time for the chaps to get their baby; that they are vetted and challenged in all the ways non-traditional parents-to-be are challenged by colleagues, family and the state; and that they end up with a gloriously happy and besotted pair of parents. But I’m not entirely optimistic about getting my every wish!

    #5516
    Rachel Tolhurst
    Rachel Tolhurst
    Participant

    I don’t want you to spill it on the sheet… snigger.

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